Would I move to another city?
Someone on Formspring recently asked me if I ever considered moving to a city less expensive than Vancouver to save more money.
The answer is yes and no.
Yes, in that I have considered it, but no because I don’t think I’d ever go through with it at this point in my life.
My home town is less expensive than Vancouver (though not by much). I could have stayed there, but I chose to move. And just over three years ago I was offered an amazing job opportunity to be the Communications Manager for an entire city in Alberta. Granted, it was a city of less than 20,000 – but it was still a big deal for me considering I was only 1.5 years out of college (and there was no way I’d snag a job like that in Vancouver until I had at least 10 years of experience under my belt).
There were plenty of reasons why I didn’t take that job, but the main reason was that, despite the savings it would generate, I felt like I would be giving up the most important years of my life. I was in my mid-20′s and yes my goal was to have a successful career, save money and retire early, but I also wanted to just live my life in a city that I could see myself living in for a while. I had to find a balance between my quality of life and my career.
After I graduated from college, my goal was to stay in my home town, but unless you work for the government (which will eat your soul), it’s extremely hard to find a job that will offer growth, stability and a decent salary. I briefly considered Edmonton, Calgary or Toronto. And even then, Toronto would have to be for my absolute dream job, because while the city is beautiful and I love it there, it’s just not for me.
Living in Vancouver I have to accept the high cost of living and the ridiculously expensive real estate prices. I’m constantly shocked by the prices compared to other places in Canada, but I’m never angry and I don’t complain. I know that it’s the price I have to pay to live here. Nobody is forcing me to live here. And if I don’t like it, I can leave and find some place cheaper.
That’s not to say that I think Vancouver is the best city to live in. It’s too big, it’s crowded, people aren’t as friendly, too much sprawl, and it takes too long to get anywhere. But that’s the trade off. I’ll take all of that crap – plus ridiculous real estate prices – because I’m focused on my career right now, and I know it won’t last forever. I hope to move back to my home town at some point in my life. Because while Vancouver is good for my career while I’m young, it’s not exactly an ideal place to settle down.
Anyway, I hope that answers your question! :)
Would you move to another city to save money?
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I would really love to move back to my home town (about 4000 people) but there really isn't any significant job opportunities there for Jordan or I – so don't think it's viable…though when we have kids, it'll be really hard not to.
My recent post December Spending Summary
I would really love to move back to my home town (about 4000 people) but there really isn't any significant job opportunities there for Jordan or I – so don't think it's viable…though when we have kids, it'll be really hard not to.
My recent post December Spending Summary
Have you thought about buying a place in another town (your hometown maybe) and renting it out? Hopefully the rent would pay the mortgage and you could continue to rent in Vancouver (and hopefully deduct the rent from your income!). My cousin lives in Vancouver and she did the same – has bought an investment property back in Ontario that she rents out. Let someone else pay the crazy housing costs in Vancouver and build equity at the same time.
Because I don't think I would ever purchase real estate as an investment, I also don't think I would purchase a place for the purposes of renting it out. For so many different reasons. Perhaps that might be something I would consider later in life, but as a first time home buyer, that does not sound appealing to me.
I would, however, purchase a place with a rental suite. Although at this point in our lives, with both of us being so busy, that's really not an ideal option. I would much rather purchase a town home or a condo than have to deal with the costs associated with buying a house and dealing with renters.
Have you thought about buying a place in another town (your hometown maybe) and renting it out? Hopefully the rent would pay the mortgage and you could continue to rent in Vancouver (and hopefully deduct the rent from your income!). My cousin lives in Vancouver and she did the same – has bought an investment property back in Ontario that she rents out. Let someone else pay the crazy housing costs in Vancouver and build equity at the same time.
Because I don't think I would ever purchase real estate as an investment, I also don't think I would purchase a place for the purposes of renting it out. For so many different reasons. Perhaps that might be something I would consider later in life, but as a first time home buyer, that does not sound appealing to me.
I would, however, purchase a place with a rental suite. Although at this point in our lives, with both of us being so busy, that's really not an ideal option. I would much rather purchase a town home or a condo than have to deal with the costs associated with buying a house and dealing with renters.
I went through that same process last year. I live in Toronto but was very tempted by a job in Northern Ontario. I could have bought a house and paid it off with a few years, my dollars would have gone much further, and there was a mid-sized airport so I could escape easily. Plus, I am not from Toronto so family wasn't a consideration. But, while I am older than you, I would be leaving my entire social network behind and am at an age where building a new one would not be so easy, plus I am single, so there is that as well. It is odd how some things which don't seem that important actually are when it comes down to it.
I went through that same process last year. I live in Toronto but was very tempted by a job in Northern Ontario. I could have bought a house and paid it off with a few years, my dollars would have gone much further, and there was a mid-sized airport so I could escape easily. Plus, I am not from Toronto so family wasn't a consideration. But, while I am older than you, I would be leaving my entire social network behind and am at an age where building a new one would not be so easy, plus I am single, so there is that as well. It is odd how some things which don't seem that important actually are when it comes down to it.
Why do you feel that working for government would eat your soul?
That's just my opinion. I have plenty of friends who work for government and enjoy it very much. My mom is a life long government employee as well.
I've worked in government on 3 separate occasions (twice with provincial, and once with municipal). I just found the process to get anything done to be very slow and frustrating. New ideas take a long time to implement, if they get implemented at all. I hate that seniority plays a HUGE factor in job movement – in fact, in some cases it's the only factor they look at. And I also hate that there are automatic pay increases every year, even to those who don't deserve it.
That being said, there are a ton of positives, including great health care and benefits, those pay increases every year, and a somewhat stable work environment (although not lately with all the lay offs). It's just not the type of work environment that works best for me. It wasn't stimulating or engaging. And perhaps that's not the case in some government offices, but where I worked, that's how I felt.
Why do you feel that working for government would eat your soul?
That's just my opinion. I have plenty of friends who work for government and enjoy it very much. My mom is a life long government employee as well.
I've worked in government on 3 separate occasions (twice with provincial, and once with municipal). I just found the process to get anything done to be very slow and frustrating. New ideas take a long time to implement, if they get implemented at all. I hate that seniority plays a HUGE factor in job movement – in fact, in some cases it's the only factor they look at. And I also hate that there are automatic pay increases every year, even to those who don't deserve it.
That being said, there are a ton of positives, including great health care and benefits, those pay increases every year, and a somewhat stable work environment (although not lately with all the lay offs). It's just not the type of work environment that works best for me. It wasn't stimulating or engaging. And perhaps that's not the case in some government offices, but where I worked, that's how I felt.
Yeah I see your point of not moving to Alberta. It would be a tough move, to leave a social circle, family and friends behind. Getting into a new one takes time and sometimes it never pans out for the better. Great choice though with staying a larger city to gain experience.
My recent post Sacrifice – Key to getting out of Financial Trouble
Yeah I see your point of not moving to Alberta. It would be a tough move, to leave a social circle, family and friends behind. Getting into a new one takes time and sometimes it never pans out for the better. Great choice though with staying a larger city to gain experience.
My recent post Sacrifice – Key to getting out of Financial Trouble
Goverment jobs have it MADE! M-A-D-E
Plus right now you only pay 150$ in rent so why move. Your clearly supporting a bf who has it made as well!
Our living situation is somewhat temporary. Plus, it's SUPER small with no storage space, and we just need more room. We can't live here forever, and by the end of this year we will be looking at places to buy.
Goverment jobs have it MADE! M-A-D-E
Plus right now you only pay 150$ in rent so why move. Your clearly supporting a bf who has it made as well!
Our living situation is somewhat temporary. Plus, it's SUPER small with no storage space, and we just need more room. We can't live here forever, and by the end of this year we will be looking at places to buy.
Rents in Vancouver can be expensive but there are also good deals out there, just not in that nice 25th floor 1000SF Yaletown condo. If you go out of downtown there are lots of decent places to rent that are not overly pricy. My brother rents a 1200 SF 3 bedroom near Commercial Drive for 1300/mo w laundry yard parking etc.. Vancouver is also the only place in Canada that is not -20 in the winter. Most Vancouverites choose to pay the higher price to live in one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Small town Saskatchewan? EEEEKKK! If you are having a hard time with real Estate prices, but a house for 700K with suites that you can rent for about 2K/mo. That cuts your mortgage payment down to about a grand for a nice main floor suite in a big house on the East side.
My recent post Shangri La
I totally agree about there being good deals out there. My first place was a 1-bedroom suite on the Vancouver side of the Burnaby border, and I only paid $600/month with everything included, except cable/internet.
We will probably end up purchasing a town home outside of Vancouver, perhaps in Burnaby, New West, Coquitlam or Port Moody.
Rents in Vancouver can be expensive but there are also good deals out there, just not in that nice 25th floor 1000SF Yaletown condo. If you go out of downtown there are lots of decent places to rent that are not overly pricy. My brother rents a 1200 SF 3 bedroom near Commercial Drive for 1300/mo w laundry yard parking etc.. Vancouver is also the only place in Canada that is not -20 in the winter. Most Vancouverites choose to pay the higher price to live in one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Small town Saskatchewan? EEEEKKK! If you are having a hard time with real Estate prices, but a house for 700K with suites that you can rent for about 2K/mo. That cuts your mortgage payment down to about a grand for a nice main floor suite in a big house on the East side.
My recent post Shangri La
I totally agree about there being good deals out there. My first place was a 1-bedroom suite on the Vancouver side of the Burnaby border, and I only paid $600/month with everything included, except cable/internet.
We will probably end up purchasing a town home outside of Vancouver, perhaps in Burnaby, New West, Coquitlam or Port Moody.
I absolutely hear you … coming from small towns (where you can find a BEAUTIFUL two bedroom above a storefront with hardwood floors and tall ceilings for $600 inclusive) Toronto feels extravagant. But you're definitely paying for the experience, the amenities, and the pulse of the city. Question is, how long do you want to pay for it?
It's something I'm always throwing back and forth in my mind. The, "you know you could achieve your financial goals much faster somewhere else, right?" Shoulder Devil trying to mess with me.
My recent post What I Spent- December 27 2010 – January 2 2011
I absolutely hear you … coming from small towns (where you can find a BEAUTIFUL two bedroom above a storefront with hardwood floors and tall ceilings for $600 inclusive) Toronto feels extravagant. But you're definitely paying for the experience, the amenities, and the pulse of the city. Question is, how long do you want to pay for it?
It's something I'm always throwing back and forth in my mind. The, “you know you could achieve your financial goals much faster somewhere else, right?” Shoulder Devil trying to mess with me.
My recent post What I Spent- December 27 2010 – January 2 2011
Only if it was less than a year….
Only if it was less than a year….
I agree that Vancouver has a bad transportation system considering the size and structure of our city (I take public transit everyday) bit I have to disagree that it is crowded. New York is 100x worse (however, much better transportation system). But I digress.
I would consider moving to another city if it was the right job and it would help me save money for the future (I’m 24 and going to bcit) My boyfriend currently works in Edmonton and although he hates living there, he’s happy to be employed and be able to save more too. Ultimately though, my dream is to settle in Vancouver (I’d be happy with surrounding cities like burnaby or coquitlam) Ive been born and raised in Vancouver… To me, nowhere else is home but here.
I agree that compared to other huge cities, Vancouver isn't crowded or huge. But growing up on Vancouver Island, Metro Vancouver is huge comparatively. My parents still live in my home town (Victoria), and it takes my mom less than 15 minutes to commute from the suburbs to the heart of downtown for work with minimal traffic congestion. Whereas it would take me almost 90 minutes to commute downtown from where I live, and even longer by public transportation. And don't get me started on the traffic! :(
BF has mostly grown up living in Metro Vancouver, so he is used to all of the things that I find frustrating. As do most of my friends here in the city.
I agree that Vancouver has a bad transportation system considering the size and structure of our city (I take public transit everyday) bit I have to disagree that it is crowded. New York is 100x worse (however, much better transportation system). But I digress.
I would consider moving to another city if it was the right job and it would help me save money for the future (I’m 24 and going to bcit) My boyfriend currently works in Edmonton and although he hates living there, he’s happy to be employed and be able to save more too. Ultimately though, my dream is to settle in Vancouver (I’d be happy with surrounding cities like burnaby or coquitlam) Ive been born and raised in Vancouver… To me, nowhere else is home but here.
I agree that compared to other huge cities, Vancouver isn't crowded or huge. But growing up on Vancouver Island, Metro Vancouver is huge comparatively. My parents still live in my home town (Victoria), and it takes my mom less than 15 minutes to commute from the suburbs to the heart of downtown for work with minimal traffic congestion. Whereas it would take me almost 90 minutes to commute downtown from where I live, and even longer by public transportation. And don't get me started on the traffic! :(
BF has mostly grown up living in Metro Vancouver, so he is used to all of the things that I find frustrating. As do most of my friends here in the city.
I constantly debate that in my head, whether I'd move outside of the downtown core… I'm likely always going to have a job downtown (nature of job), so moving would instantly mean a much longer commute. To me, at least at this age, I have zero interest in commuting again!
My recent post The Hidden Upselling in Restaurants
I constantly debate that in my head, whether I'd move outside of the downtown core… I'm likely always going to have a job downtown (nature of job), so moving would instantly mean a much longer commute. To me, at least at this age, I have zero interest in commuting again!
My recent post The Hidden Upselling in Restaurants
I moved from my hometown to vancouver last year. It's definately expensive & time consuming to commute everywhere, but everythign is at your doorstep. it's a womeful place to live, compard to my hometown. While I would HATE HATE HATE the thought of living in the hole that is Alberta, I would probably move there for a good job opportunity, as long as I kept it in my head that it's not permanant.
My recent post Vinegar- A Frugal Girls Best Friend
I moved from my hometown to vancouver last year. It's definately expensive & time consuming to commute everywhere, but everythign is at your doorstep. it's a womeful place to live, compard to my hometown. While I would HATE HATE HATE the thought of living in the hole that is Alberta, I would probably move there for a good job opportunity, as long as I kept it in my head that it's not permanant.
My recent post Vinegar- A Frugal Girls Best Friend
I moved to a mid-size city in the US Midwest from a slightly smaller city in the South, thinking I would only be here for a few years before moving on to a bigger and better city…just had my 10-yr anniversary of living here. :P Be careful where you move, if you do–it's not always as easy to jump ship again as you might think. Personally Vancouver sounds like heaven on earth to me…and in cities i think you DO get what you pay for. Sure, my rent is cheap where I live–but it ain't Vancouver or Seattle or New York. :)
That's exactly how I feel. It's hard to move to a city, make friends, get comfortable with the community, and then up and leave. Not to mention the expense associated with moving! I knew the next place I moved, I wanted to stay for the long term.
Also I totally agree, I would much rather pay a bit more and live in a desirable city, than live in a place I didn't love. I lived in a smallish town in Michigan for 2 years and couldn't imagine living there permanently.
I moved to a mid-size city in the US Midwest from a slightly smaller city in the South, thinking I would only be here for a few years before moving on to a bigger and better city…just had my 10-yr anniversary of living here. :P Be careful where you move, if you do–it's not always as easy to jump ship again as you might think. Personally Vancouver sounds like heaven on earth to me…and in cities i think you DO get what you pay for. Sure, my rent is cheap where I live–but it ain't Vancouver or Seattle or New York. :)
That's exactly how I feel. It's hard to move to a city, make friends, get comfortable with the community, and then up and leave. Not to mention the expense associated with moving! I knew the next place I moved, I wanted to stay for the long term.
Also I totally agree, I would much rather pay a bit more and live in a desirable city, than live in a place I didn't love. I lived in a smallish town in Michigan for 2 years and couldn't imagine living there permanently.
I'd like to say that gas and food prices aren't really more expensive than the average places in Canada. I was just back east for the holidays… If you decide to shop at upscale grocery stores, that's really just your decision and not because you live in Vancouver. Costco prices are the same across Canada. Same for Home Depot, The Bay, Sears and so forth … Provincial taxes is where one of the difference is along with the income tax difference.
Aside from Real Estate prices, I am not so sure how different the 'prices' are. In a smaller town, you definitely have less commuting so you probably have more time for yourself but you also have less infrastructures. My parents often have this discussion with family and friends on my behalf saying that it's only real estate that is expensive, just like any other large city.
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From what I've found, gas prices in Vancouver are much, much higher than any of the smaller towns in BC. Right now gas is around $1.20/L, and in my home town on the island, where gas should be more expensive due to having to ferry it over, it's always at least 5-10 cents cheaper per litre. Go an hour out of Metro Vancouver and it's significantly cheaper.
The commute, of course is much longer in a big city. Which leads to more gas and more repair expenses. Don't forget the rise in auto insurance in a big city too. My auto insurance went up significantly with the move to Vancouver. And public transportation. In my home town it costs $2.50 to get anywhere in the city and the surrounding areas (from Sooke to Sidney – which is 55km distance). But in Vancouver, it costs $5.00 for the same thing. That's double the cost!
The costs of restaurants (all kinds from pubs to diners to high end) are more expensive in the city, as is alcohol, and generally any form of entertainment. Concerts, hair cuts, sporting events, fitness fees … everything just costs more in comparison. Sure, the big chain stores are the same throughout Canada – but everything else? In my experience living in 4 different cities of different sizes, is much more expensive in the big city centres.
Obviously the biggest one, like you said, is the cost of real estate and renting. When you compare the fact that $600,000 won't even buy you a house in Vancouver, but would buy you a massive house on an acreage elsewhere in Canada, well that's a HUGE difference.
I'd like to say that gas and food prices aren't really more expensive than the average places in Canada. I was just back east for the holidays… If you decide to shop at upscale grocery stores, that's really just your decision and not because you live in Vancouver. Costco prices are the same across Canada. Same for Home Depot, The Bay, Sears and so forth … Provincial taxes is where one of the difference is along with the income tax difference.
Aside from Real Estate prices, I am not so sure how different the 'prices' are. In a smaller town, you definitely have less commuting so you probably have more time for yourself but you also have less infrastructures. My parents often have this discussion with family and friends on my behalf saying that it's only real estate that is expensive, just like any other large city.
My recent post Dividend Yield- Royal Bank of Canada TSE-RY- NYSE-RY
From what I've found, gas prices in Vancouver are much, much higher than any of the smaller towns in BC. Right now gas is around $1.20/L, and in my home town on the island, where gas should be more expensive due to having to ferry it over, it's always at least 5-10 cents cheaper per litre. Go an hour out of Metro Vancouver and it's significantly cheaper.
The commute, of course is much longer in a big city. Which leads to more gas and more repair expenses. Don't forget the rise in auto insurance in a big city too. My auto insurance went up significantly with the move to Vancouver. And public transportation. In my home town it costs $2.50 to get anywhere in the city and the surrounding areas (from Sooke to Sidney – which is 55km distance). But in Vancouver, it costs $5.00 for the same thing. That's double the cost!
The costs of restaurants (all kinds from pubs to diners to high end) are more expensive in the city, as is alcohol, and generally any form of entertainment. Concerts, hair cuts, sporting events, fitness fees … everything just costs more in comparison. Sure, the big chain stores are the same throughout Canada – but everything else? In my experience living in 4 different cities of different sizes, is much more expensive in the big city centres.
Obviously the biggest one, like you said, is the cost of real estate and renting. When you compare the fact that $600,000 won't even buy you a house in Vancouver, but would buy you a massive house on an acreage elsewhere in Canada, well that's a HUGE difference.
Not if that was my sole reason.
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Not if that was my sole reason.
My recent post What to do if you think your identity has been stolen
No… my parents are aging and I need to be close by to help. I'm living as inexpensively as possible while still living in a safe area (of metro Detroit). I also torture myself by looking at the MLS and dreaming that I could buy/move. I will when I'm debt free!!!
No… my parents are aging and I need to be close by to help. I'm living as inexpensively as possible while still living in a safe area (of metro Detroit). I also torture myself by looking at the MLS and dreaming that I could buy/move. I will when I'm debt free!!!
Would I move to another city to save money? Hmm, I think
that’s what I’m doing right now, haha… but I
got a once-in-a-lifetime offer with the whole free rent in the
biggest city in Canada! So, I think I’m biased. If I was
offered a job like the one you were in Alberta, I would say no too.
Small town, big bucks? Who needs it! ;) My recent post rel="nofollow">A Little More About Me – Part 2- Dream
Jobs
Would I move to another city to save money? Hmm, I think
that’s what I’m doing right now, haha… but I
got a once-in-a-lifetime offer with the whole free rent in the
biggest city in Canada! So, I think I’m biased. If I was
offered a job like the one you were in Alberta, I would say no too.
Small town, big bucks? Who needs it! ;) My recent post rel="nofollow">A Little More About Me – Part 2- Dream
Jobs
Gas is a little more expensive here than anywhere else in
BC (thanks Gordo for the gas tax), but there’s so much to
love about Vancouver (cheap food, delicious SUSHI, snowboarding
outside of downtown vancouver in 20 minutes, beaches, hiking,
trails, cycling routes etc.!). I agree that the transportation
system sucks though. They are working on that, I suppose. I
haven’t lived anywhere else.. but I can’t imagine
living anywhere else. We did contemplate Calgary though, MAYBE
toronto but it seems to “city-like” for me. I
know we’re a city, but I think vancouver likes to pretend
that its not sometimes. My recent post rel="nofollow">Weekend Ramblings and PF Blog Love- Homeless Man
Edition
Gas is a little more expensive here than anywhere else in
BC (thanks Gordo for the gas tax), but there’s so much to
love about Vancouver (cheap food, delicious SUSHI, snowboarding
outside of downtown vancouver in 20 minutes, beaches, hiking,
trails, cycling routes etc.!). I agree that the transportation
system sucks though. They are working on that, I suppose. I
haven’t lived anywhere else.. but I can’t imagine
living anywhere else. We did contemplate Calgary though, MAYBE
toronto but it seems to “city-like” for me. I
know we’re a city, but I think vancouver likes to pretend
that its not sometimes. My recent post rel="nofollow">Weekend Ramblings and PF Blog Love- Homeless Man
Edition
Oh and PS – I saw on the news today that Vancouver average
home prices have officially gone over the $1,000,000 mark! SHEESH!!
Blows my mind. My recent post rel="nofollow">Weekend Ramblings and PF Blog Love- Homeless Man
Edition
Oh and PS – I saw on the news today that Vancouver average
home prices have officially gone over the $1,000,000 mark! SHEESH!!
Blows my mind. My recent post rel="nofollow">Weekend Ramblings and PF Blog Love- Homeless Man
Edition
I am trying desperately hard to not only move out of Vancouver, but get out of Canada altogether!
I am trying desperately hard to not only move out of Vancouver, but get out of Canada altogether!
Not to save money but definitely for the experience. We
dreamt and talked about it countless of times in the past few years
but I think our ship has sailed now and we’re okay with
it. That said, where we live is pretty awesome too, except for the
house prices at the moment which is ridiculous. Sounds like
Vancouver is the same!! My recent post rel="nofollow">Januarys Budget
Not to save money but definitely for the experience. We
dreamt and talked about it countless of times in the past few years
but I think our ship has sailed now and we’re okay with
it. That said, where we live is pretty awesome too, except for the
house prices at the moment which is ridiculous. Sounds like
Vancouver is the same!! My recent post rel="nofollow">Januarys Budget
I live in NYC and am always depressed and apalled by the real estate prices. I've always lived here, but I know when it comes time to buy a home I will have to say goodbye. :(
My recent post Hello 2011
I live in NYC and am always depressed and apalled by the real estate prices. I've always lived here, but I know when it comes time to buy a home I will have to say goodbye. :(
My recent post Hello 2011
I actually DID move to a new city (Milwaukee) from a much more expensive one (DC). My rent, groceries, and everything is cheaper, plus I got a huge salary bump. Living in a big city when you're paying over $1,000 on rent makes life rather difficult.
I actually DID move to a new city (Milwaukee) from a much more expensive one (DC). My rent, groceries, and everything is cheaper, plus I got a huge salary bump. Living in a big city when you're paying over $1,000 on rent makes life rather difficult.
Like Christine, I *did* move. It was for a set of reasons, but one was that it's a lot easier to get ahead and save up here in Yellowknife than in Vancouver, although it also has its high-priced elements! But unlike Vancouver, the income more than compensates. One surprise was that it takes a while to recover financially from a significant move. The costs of moving (even though my employer paid, I still had to cover a bunch of items), needing new items / furniture up here, and the cost of flying “home” to Vancouver periodically so I don't wilt of homesickness. Nevertheless, 2 years later, it is SO worth having made the move.
My recent post Why you shouldn’t use self-discipline to change your money habits
I totally agree with you – it takes a long time to recover financially from a move. Even when I moved off the island to Vancouver, it took me a few months and I didn't have relocation expenses paid for. When I first graduated college, I thought about moving up north to save money and to have a new experience… but in the end, I just couldn't do it. Perhaps later on in life when I have an established career.
I am sad that we were never able to meet up while you were still living here in Vancouver though. Hopefully next time you're down!